Interviewee: Shirley Jewell
Interviewer: Amy Stevens
June 14th, 2006
Eastern Fine Paper Oral History Project

[Begin interview, Begin Track 1]

Amy Stevens: This is Amy Stevens. It’s June 14th, 2006, and I’m going to talk with Shirley Jewell, who worked at Eastern Fine Paper Company.

Shirley Jewell: Hello. [Both laugh] They edit this, right?

AS: Yeah. [Both laugh]

SJ: Oh good!

AS: They don’t usually type up the stuff that you say in the beginning, so. Well, thank you very much for coming to my house today.

SJ: You’re welcome.

AS: And Cyndi Wass had recommended that I speak with you so, I guess I’ll start by asking you what you did at Eastern.

SJ: Well, when I started, I’m trying to think what year I started, it was ’91 I believe, I went as a temp through PAGE Employment to do technical/secretarial work to fill in for vacations for two weeks. And I did that, and they asked me to come back for a couple of days just to tell the lady what I had done and everything, and she had had a family emergency and they said “Can you stay a couple more weeks until she comes back?” and I said “Sure,” so I stayed, and then summer vacations were starting so they said “Would you mind staying? And you know, if it works out then we might keep you for the whole summer,” and I said “Well sure,” so I went to the customer service department and did order entry on like two hours training and –

AS: Wow! [Both laugh]

SJ: And it just, it worked, and I liked working there, and they liked me, and that’s, I just went from department to department doing different things. I’d fill in for Cyndi doing administrative assistant work and, if my home base was human resources, if I wasn’t filling in for vacations I was answering their phones and doing their filing for human resources.

AS: So did that work into a permanent position?

SJ: It worked into a permanent position in August of that year. My husband changed jobs, so his insurance, the insurance was gonna be more than we’d been paying so I was looking for a job that had benefits for my three children and my husband and myself and I went and I said – I had run into somebody that I’d worked with previously and he said “What are you doing?” And I told him, and he said “Look, there’s an opening where I work for a full-time position with great benefits. If you’d be interested, I would vouch for you.” And so I went and interviewed and it wasn’t the perfect job, but the pay was adequate and it was good benefits.

AS: And where was that?

SJ: It was at Waste Industries or, it was a garbage collection place here in Brewer and, but I just, the gentleman that interviewed me was, I got a bad feeling about him [laughs] so I said but, you know I, this is what I need for health benefits, so. I went back and talked with the human resource director and I said “This is the deal. I like where I’m working and I’d like to stay here, but I need health benefits. And I have an opportunity to go to a place with benefits for the same amount of money.” She says “Can you give me two days?” I said, “Well that will work out fine ‘cause I’ve gotta give my answer to him in three days.”

AS: Okay. [Both laugh]

SJ: So Donna went and talked to everybody and said “You know, she’s working out great, you know, she does what she has to do and we can depend on her and she’d be an asset to the company,” so they hired me.

AS: Excellent.

SJ: So I did the, just the floating job. Sometimes I’d do three different jobs in one day, just go in and doing this for a little bit to get the basics done for that job and then I’d go someplace else and do the basics for that job if it had something to do further on down the line for somebody else so it wouldn’t hold them up and I did that for five years.

AS: Wow. Did you like that, that variety?

SJ: I did. I liked it because if I didn’t like a job or if there was like a personality conflict it’s like, “Okay, it’s only two weeks. I can do it for two weeks.” [Both laugh] And, you know, it worked.

AS: That must have given you a unique perspective on the company, that you got to work in so many different places and with so many different folks.

SJ: It did.

AS: Did you have a favorite area?

SJ: Well, it had to be the technical position where I first went to work as technical secretary. They made it administrative assistant and when the lady retired, we’d had a personal tragedy in our family and my husband said “Every time I call that mill they’re really good about finding you but sometimes it’s like forever! [AS laughs] Because you’re never where you’re supposed to be!” [Both laugh] I said “Well, you know.” And I wasn’t important enough to have a pager, and voicemail was just coming into existence, and it never dawned on anybody to just give me a voicemail number without a phone and I could, so people could leave me messages and, he said “You know, I just really need to be able to contact you when I want you.” And my other two sons just needed [End Track 1, Begin Track 2]

SJ: to know that they could call and Mom was there. And so the opportunity came that the lady was retiring and I applied for the job and that’s where I stayed until – and it was working for three different departments, technical department for fine paper, coated paper, and the environmental department.

AS: Oh wow.

SJ: Just keeping track of about fifteen people when I went up there, making sure that they were there and answering their phones and, just doing a variety of jobs.

AS: So did you have any sort of mentors or favorite co-workers or anything while you were at Eastern?

SJ: I liked everybody. I got along with everybody and, everybody was fun to work with.

AS: Were there quite a lot of women in the areas where you worked, or?

SJ: No. [laughs]

AS: No?

SJ: No, customer service was, had the biggest amount of women, I think they had three and, basically it was men.

AS: Really?

SJ: Yeah.

AS: So you were working with men in the office jobs and also sort of working with them – you said the coated paper division and the environmental division. So those would be people that weren’t in office jobs but were sort of in the mills themselves, or?

SJ: They were, well they were both, they were in, had their offices up on the third floor where my office was and, I mean, but they’d go down and I’d have to, you know, find them and type their letters and do their travel and whatever they needed me to do [laughs].

AS: So were you a salaried person, or?

SJ: I was what they called “exempt.” I was hourly with overtime, but I didn’t have to punch a clock.

AS: Were you a member of the union?

SJ: No.

AS: No, okay. And were the folks that you worked for primarily salaried, or?

SJ: Yes.

AS: All right. And you worked there until the mill closed?

SJ: I was one of the last ones out the door. [laughs]

AS: Really? Can you tell me a little bit about that?

SJ: But not as my position as technical administrative assistant. When they did the first round of shut-downs in May of – I can’t remember what year, it must’ve been 2002, 2003 maybe? – they announced that they were gonna do lay-offs and, you know, of course everybody’s nervous and one of my bosses came up to me, he says “Well, I’ve got some good news and some bad news.” And I said “What’s that?” And he goes “Well, you didn’t get laid off, that’s the good news.” I said “Okay, what’s the bad news?” He goes “Your job doesn’t exist anymore.”

AS: Oh wow.

SJ: I said, “What do you mean?” I said, “Who’s gonna take care of you guys? I mean” [laughs] “you need me!” He said “Well, they, we’re just gonna have to fend for ourselves and,” he said “they’re gonna send you to the shipping department.” Which is one of the jobs I had done as a floater, and I’d filled in for vacations and, still because it was just one of those jobs where once you learned it, it was just easier to do it than explain it to somebody else. [laughs]

AS: Right. So what type of things would you do there?

SJ: I did the bill of ladings, it’s all the paperwork with the orders for the different customers, and the shippers would gather it and load it on the trucks and I would have to do the bill of lading for the truck drivers so they would know where to stop and what their weight was to take off at this stop if it wasn’t a full truck and.

AS: Now, “bill of lading,” how do you spell that?

SJ: B-I-L-L, L-A-D-I-N-G.

AS: L-A-D-I-N-G. That’s not a term I’m familiar with so I want to make sure [SJ laughs] and that has to do with shipping?

SJ: Um hum.

AS: Okay. And so that’s what you were doing when you, when your job no longer existed, and you went to shipping?

SJ: Yes. And it was, it was sad, I mean I didn’t mind going, but the lady that had been there, that’s all she’d ever done for I’m guessing thirty years. And, but that’s all she had done, and so I was, I don’t want to say a bigger asset to the company but I could do more things and that’s what they were looking for that, who could help the company most. You know, I could go up and I could do order entries if I had to and, which down to when they closed that’s what I was doing is, they laid off everybody, like in customer service they had a couple of people taking phone calls but if they had an order I’d run up and I’d type the order up and then we’d fax it down and I’d go and I’d pull it and give it to the drivers to go find the paper and then they’d bring it out and say “This is where it’s going on the truck,” I’d do the bill of lading, and [laughs].

AS: Wow.

SJ: It was –

AS: So you replaced the woman that previously did that in shipping?

SJ: Yes. [End Track 2, Begin Track 3]

AS: Did she retire or was she laid off?

SJ: Well, they just, it was a forced retirement. They kind of let people go so they wouldn’t have to pay them retirement if something happened and the company did make it. That’s my opinion.

AS: Really. That’s kind of unfortunate.

SJ: It is and, you know but she, it was just, it was a hard time ‘cause they said you know, “Just make yourself scarce until two o’clock ‘cause we’re gonna tell her when she comes back from lunch.”

AS: Oh wow.

SJ: And it’s like, “Okay.” [laughs] And you know, and I’m thinking, I’ve gotta find some place to hide until she goes home and they call me to tell me I can come. But she came up, she says “There’s no hard feelings. I know they’re doing what’s, can make the company run better and, she was just, she was a nice lady but, it’s like you can’t teach an old dog new tricks sometimes, and.

AS: Yeah. Well that’s certainly an interesting side of the story that I hadn’t heard from anyone before.

SJ: Yeah.

AS: So how did you – I’m gonna back you up a little bit – how did you decide to go to work at Eastern in the first place? Was it - ?

SJ: I went as a temp. I had registered at PAGE Employment as, that I would work, I had been previously unemployed and I went through a temp agency ‘cause, to get my foot in the door, and see if that’s what I wanted to do, and that’s what happened, and they placed me there as an employee of PAGE Employment, they paid me for the, until I was hired at Eastern Fine.

AS: Okay. Did you live in the Brewer area, or?

SJ: I lived in Levant.

AS: You lived in Levant, okay. And you were married and had a family at that time?

SJ: Yep. Yep.

AS: Okay. Did you know anybody at Eastern when you first started working there, or?

SJ: No.

AS: No? No family or anything?

SJ: No, which is strange ‘cause a lot of people were family that worked there.

AS: So you were a new face. [laughs]

SJ: I was a new face, and –

AS: Did everything go fairly smoothly as you transitioned into the permanent position?

SJ: Yes, I’d done it many times when she had been on vacation, and.

AS: Nobody pulled any like initiation tricks on you or anything like that? [Both laugh]

SJ: No, not that I can remember. [laughs]

AS: I think maybe that happened more on the mill floor than it did up in the offices. [laughs]

SJ: Yeah, yeah. I know I always felt well respected, I mean, you’d be walking through, when I was doing my floater job I, one of my jobs was to go to count all the cartons and all the chemicals and make sure we had all the right things and, I’d be walking through I mean at like six o’clock in the morning and people, the guys would just be talking and they’d be like “Oh oh, shhhh, here she comes!” It’s like - [both laugh] And you know so they’d immediately just like clean up their act and they’d get real quiet and it’s like “Okay I’m done counting,” and then you’d hear them talking again as I walked off, but.

AS: Oh gosh! So they were doing that because they sort of respected you professionally?

SJ: Well I think, yeah just, I don’t know, they just I guess thought of me, I wasn’t one to swear or, you know, so.

AS: Oh, okay. All right. Not that they were like hiding anything. Just that they were being –

SJ: No, they were just, you know, being polite [laughs]. Yeah.

AS: Yeah. So how did you interact with other female co-workers? Everything was pretty - ?

SJ: Um, yeah I did okay. Yep.

AS: And the men treated you with respect – ?

SJ: Oh yeah.

AS: Never any issues in terms of inequality or anything like that?

SJ: No, no. I remember one time when I was filling in out front, Lois, she had been there for years, that’s Cyndi’s mother, and she was on vacation, I was filling in for her and one of the VPs was up from the Massachusetts area and he said “Shirley,” he said, “I’d like some coffee” and [some guests with him] and I said “Oh I just made a fresh pot, it’s up on the balcony.” And he looked at me and he goes “I know where it is.” [Laughs] “Oh!” I said [AS laughs], and I just looked at him and I said, “Oh. Would you like me to get it for you?” “Yes I would. I have mine black, these gentleman have cream.” It’s like “Okay!” [both laugh]

AS: Wow!

SJ: So, you know, I went out and got my, the coffee and the creamer and the sugar and all that and brought it down over the stairs and I’m walking around the corner and the customer service manager, he was a great joker, he goes “I don’t believe it! If I hadn’t seen this with my own eyes, I would not believe that you were serving coffee!” [both laugh] I said “Well let’s just keep it our secret!”

AS: So that wasn’t something you’d ever been asked to do before?

SJ: No. No, it’s like, “You want coffee? Get it yourself!” You know? [laughs]

AS: Right! Was this somebody that you didn’t normally interact with, or?

SJ: It was one of the VPs, and, you know I just, [End Track 3, Begin Track 4]

SJ: I didn’t have a problem with getting his coffee, I just, “You want coffee? Yeah, I just made the coffee. It’s upstairs.” [both laugh]

AS: Yeah, I think that would have been my reaction too. [Both laugh] Huh! That’s interesting. Did you ever hear of any stories from any of your female co-workers about inequality or harassment or anything like that?

SJ: No, no.

AS: It sounds like it was a pretty friendly environment.

SJ: Yeah, it was. I mean, there was always a lot of teasing and, you know you just, it was friendly teasing.

AS: Any practical jokes or anything like that that you would do in the different departments?

SJ: No, I don’t remember any, I mean, it’s been a long time since I worked there but, well not that long but, it just seems like a long time, I’ve moved on.

AS: So what did you say you do now?

SJ: I’m working in accounts payable for Brewer Automotive Components. And I started there again as a, I went back to PAGE Employment when the mill closed and said “I’m open again. [laughs] Put me somewhere.” So they, I was, I got done I think at the mill in February and I was only unemployed for like maybe two weeks, and started at BAC as a temp.

AS: Oh that’s great.

SJ: And they decided that, yes, the position I was in they were gonna make permanent, and so I applied for it and got the position and then six, seven months later there was an opening in accounts payable, which I had done in a previous job at Bar Harbor Airlines for like nine years, that’s what I had done. And I had been helping out, you know, just doing some you know filing and stuff for them to get them caught up and I said “You know, if you ever make this position permanent, I’d be interested because I like working with numbers and dealing with that. And an opening came up so I applied and got the job.

AS: Excellent.

SJ: I’ve been doing that for about a year-and-a-half, so.

AS: How does this job compare to like the wages and benefits that you received at Eastern?

SJ: Eastern was better, but I can’t complain what I’m making now. But when I first started at Eastern Fine Paper, when they hired me as the technical floater, or the floater, they upped me a dollar an hour from what I was making as a temp, and for the first five years I think every raise I got like a dollar an hour more. So I was making good money but they could depend on me. And when I took the permanent job they hired somebody else because I had made the position work, and they hired somebody else and she says “You know what? I get so tired of hearing ‘That’s not how Shirley did it!’” It’s like – [both laugh]

AS: You had a good reputation!

SJ: Yeah.

AS: So, what was my next question for you? How do you feel that – this is kind of a big open-ended question – how do you feel that most folks that worked at Eastern fared in terms of wages and benefits and owning their own homes, things like that?

SJ: I think they did okay, I mean, I think you’ve always got your people that are gonna spend money the wrong way before they pay their bills and are gonna live from paycheck to paycheck, but I think most people did okay.

AS: Do you feel that the mill contributed to the community in any way?

SJ: Yes we did. I remember at Christmastime we always did like an angel tree and contacted the Brewer school department and got families that were in need that really didn’t want to go to like the Salvation Army, or for whatever reason and we would, you know, buy, they would give us a list of ideas and we’d, people would either take the little angels off the tree and go buy the gift or give money and we’d, you know, make sure that they had, you know, like a Christmas dinner and stuff like that, and –

AS: Oh that’s great!

SJ: And we did you know like community service work for you know like Helping Hands. I helped with that one year and.

AS: And what does that involve?

SJ: Well we went to a lady’s house here in Brewer and just did her spring cleaning for her.

AS: Oh great!

SJ: You know, did her, you know moved the furniture and vacuumed and then, I mean there was five or six of us that went.

AS: That’s nice.

SJ: So you know we did that and you know, there were always, you know, always gave a lot of paper away, you know, to different organizations and stuff like that.

AS: Did you have, like, Christmas parties or retirement parties or anything like that? [End Track 4, Begin Track 5]

SJ: No big Christmas parties that I can remember going to. They’d have like a buffet dinner for like the office people, and you’d just bring potluck and –

AS: Oh great!

SJ: Like that, and retirement parties, they would but that was more like for the management and the retirees and the former retirees.

AS: So the general mill employees wouldn’t be invited?

SJ: Right.

AS: It would just be – okay.

SJ: Which was fine. I’m not a party person, so.

AS: Oh, okay! [Both laugh] Now what about you and your co-workers? Would you spend time with any of them outside of Eastern? Were you friendly with any of them and would do things?

SJ: No just, unless it had something to do with the mill like, you know, the Helping Hands thing or, but not really, no.

AS: Okay. Were there any types of, sort of groups within the mill like sports teams or, I don’t know, the equivalent of sewing circles or church groups or anything like that?

SJ: They had a, I think they had a baseball team or a softball team that they sponsored.

AS: Oh okay, that mill people would play on?

SJ: Yeah I, yeah. But I wasn’t interested in, I mean if my husband was playing on it then yes I’d go watch, but [laughs] with three kids at home I didn’t have time to.

AS: Yeah. Now was that just for men, or women, or both?

SJ: It was just for men. Because there wasn’t that many women that worked in the mill, I mean, on the machines. There was a few but not a lot.

AS: So the baseball team was primarily people that worked down on the machines, not the office staff?

SJ: Right.

AS: Okay. Any other types of groups among the office people, or? Like even bowling leagues, or bridge clubs or anything like that?

SJ: No, not that I know of.

AS: Okay. What about local hang-outs or businesses that were frequented by Eastern employees? This is a little bit different for you because you weren’t in Brewer, but [laughs].

SJ: Yeah, I’m not, I’m really not sure. ‘Cause I worked and then went home.

AS: Yeah. And did you work like a 9 to 5 day or?

SJ: I, 8 to 5 usually.

AS: 8 to 5, okay. Did they have a cafeteria there?

SJ: Well, it was a lunch room with, like you know vending machines with sandwiches and soda and.

AS: Okay. So would you usually bring your lunch or?

SJ: Yeah. Or I’d walk across the street to whatever the restaurant was at the time, Ron’s Place or [laughs].

AS: Oh okay. Yeah, I think it’s still there actually.

SJ: Or Tozier’s Market was, you know, a good place. We’d stop and just grab a sandwich there or whatever and.

AS: Did your husband or children ever come to visit you at the mill?

SJ: I think my husband went there one time, and my son came once, my younger son came but, it was, you had to escort them, you know, at all times. You couldn’t just let them roam around because you don’t want them getting hurt and, you know you had to wear safety glasses and steel-toed shoes if you were out on the floor and.

AS: Did you have to wear safety glasses and steel-toed shoes?

SJ: If I was going down around the machines, and if I was just walking through I didn’t have to wear steel-toed shoes, and my glasses, I have to wear them all the time so they counted as eye protection.

AS: Oh okay.

SJ: But if I was just walking, if you stayed between the yellow lines you didn’t have to wear safety shoes [laughs].

AS: Oh okay. And what would you typically go down on the floor to do?

SJ: Depending on what job I was doing, if I was doing certifications for some of the paper, for quality, you know I had to go down and get the log books or the log sheets for that run of paper and.

AS: Oh that’s interesting. Would you do that as part of customer support type of thing, or?

SJ: I did that as part of my floater job. They had let somebody go and then decided, “Oh, who’s gonna do his job?” [Both laugh] “Oh, Shirley can do it!”

AS: Wow. So you really did a little bit of everything.

SJ: I did and that’s, I enjoyed it, it was, I enjoyed that and I would’ve kept doing it if I didn’t need like a home base for my family but. It was, it worked out.

AS: You must have gotten to know an awful lot of folks at the mill.

SJ: Oh yeah. Yeah, and I still run into a lot of people and I recognize them but the names, it’s like “Yeah I know you but…” [laughs] [End Track 5, Begin Track 6]

AS: Yeah. How many people do you think worked there at the peak time?

SJ: Oh, I’m guessing maybe 350, 400.

AS: Really, wow. Yeah, I probably wouldn’t remember all those names either! [laughs]

SJ: Yeah. ‘Cause they worked on three shifts.

AS: That’s right.

SJ: Or two shifts, but twenty-four hours a day. They never shut down, very rarely.

AS: Did they have dress codes, or anything like that? Other than the steel-toed boots and safety glasses?

SJ: No, not really. You could, if you were out front in the office you were expected to dress nicely, no jeans or whatever. But if I was out in the mill and I knew I was gonna be down on the floor I would wear, not necessarily blue jeans but jeans like this [tan colored] and –

AS: Not dress pants or skirts or anything.

SJ: Right. Yeah, and you know I tried that and it’s like then I’d have to go down on the floor to do something or, you know “We need to know how many cartons are there,” and it’s like okay [laughs]. So on goes the steel-toed boots and my dress and it’s like “Yeah, this isn’t working for me!” [Both laugh]

AS: Right, oh my gosh. Do you still keep in touch with anybody from the mill?

SJ: Well, there’s a few people at BAC that used to work at the –

AS: Really?

SJ: - at the mill and, when I first went to work at BAC I was answering the phone and people would, you had to go into the little waiting area then call the phone, use the phone to call upstairs and they’d say “I know that voice.” [Both laugh] It’s like “Yeah, this is Shirley from the mill.” “Ah, what are you doing here?” “I work here.” “Well that figures!” So, but you know there’s been a few people that worked at the mill that have come and gone from BAC but there’s still a few that are there and.

AS: Do you have any sense of how most of the folks are doing since the lay-offs?

SJ: Well you know you run into somebody and they go “Yeah, I saw this person and you know he was working here but he got laid off, and,” and I was out shopping one day and I ran into somebody and he said “Where are you working?” and I told him and he said “Well,” he said, “still nothing.” And depending on what they did at the mill, on whether, ‘cause some people that worked there, that’s all they’d ever done and, I mean, and they had no other skills, so it was hard for them to find another job.

AS: A couple other random questions. Were there any nicknames or anything like that among your co-workers?

SJ: Yeah, I’m sure there were many of ‘em but, I mean you know nothing bad, just you know, little pet names. I don’t think I had any but.

AS: Any like ghost stories or legends associated with the mill?

SJ: I don’t think so, not that I know of.

AS: And you worked there, did you start there before Joe Torras owned the mill or?

SJ: No, he was already there.

AS: He was already owner, okay. In your opinion was there anything that you think led to the closing of the mill? Any signs that you saw that maybe things weren’t going the way they could’ve been going?

SJ: Hmmm. I don’t think so. I mean I’m sure there were but, you know I did my job and.

AS: Did you hear like grumblings among co-workers or anything?

SJ: Oh there was always grumbling about something [laughs].

AS: Even before there was trouble.

SJ: Yeah. Yeah. You know and people would be scared when there would be rumbles about, you know, “There’s gonna be cut-offs” or “There’s gonna be,” you know, “lay-offs or cutbacks,” and you know people would get really scared and, we had one guy that every time he went on vacation he packed up his office

AS: Really?

SJ: [Laughing] And it’s like “Why are you doing that?” He said “Well,” he said, “you know what happened to so-and-so, he went on vacation and they wouldn’t let him back through the gate when he came back!”

AS: Wow! Now what department was he in?

SJ: He was in the technical department.

AS: Gosh. And was this towards the end, or before things were really getting bad?

SJ: No, it was before things were really, he was just a paranoid person in my opinion [both laugh], he was –

AS: I guess so!

SJ: No he, he was a real nice guy but you could make him feel bad just, [End Track 6, Begin Track 7]

SJ: I mean I had one of those sand art things my son had done, and he, I mean he had got this whole kit for Christmas and he had done like twenty of these things. I mean they’re all over the place and this guy picked up one off that was sitting on my desk and he shook it and he goes “What’s this?” I said “That was my son’s sand art project.” [AS laughs] And he just, he set it down and he took off and somebody else came in, the go, “What did you do to Dennis?” And I said “Nothing, why?” “Well he’s just sitting there going ‘She’s never gonna speak to me again, I just know it!’” [Both laugh] I said “No, it’d take more than that,” I said, “I’ll just bring another one in.”

AS: Oh, gosh! So a little sensitive maybe.

SJ: Yeah.

AS: Let’s see, what else do I have to ask? Do you have any sense of the average age of laid-off workers at the mill?

SJ: I’m guessing maybe between 45 and 55.

AS: So they had been working for quite a while but still not close enough to retire.

SJ: Right.

AS: So what do you think was the result of that for a lot of these people?

SJ: I think if they were close enough, getting close to retire they were the first ones to go which, it’s not fair. You know I felt bad for a lot of people that, they were you know within five, six years of retiring and they couldn’t even get partial retirement because they were let go.

AS: Did they offer any type of retraining or any benefits for workers when they were laid off?

SJ: They did, they had all kinds of meetings and helped you with your insurance and filling out forms and all kind – but I didn’t go to a lot of them because like I said within two weeks I was hired as a temp and that was fine with me, I mean my husband was working, he had insurance so.

AS: Now did the mill run those programs or was that the union or was it some other agency?

SJ: It was part of the union and I think maybe the city of Brewer, and training and development, to help you know people if they wanted to they could get benefits if they wanted to retrain for a job.

AS: Oh okay. But if you didn’t take retraining then you were pretty much just cut off from -

SJ: Right.

AS: No pensions or no anything like that.

SJ: And the union was, and the union is still doing a lot of, I think, like they would help with the food, they had a food pantry down at the union hall, and you know do drives and stuff like that.

AS: Oh that’s good. Wow, I think I’m running out of things to ask. Are there any, you know, funny stories or anything that stand out in your mind that you think would be important as part of this Eastern Fine Paper mill story?

SJ: I can’t -

AS: No pressure. [Both laugh]

SJ: Yeah, yeah! I can’t think of any right now, funny stories, I, no not, no funny stories [laughs].

AS: It sounds like you really enjoyed what you did there and it was pretty straightforward and everybody was good to work with and, you know I talk to some people that have a lot of stories about conflicts and grumblings and, you know, a lot of the machine workers have all kinds of practical jokes and things like that.

SJ: Yeah.

AS: So it depends on where you worked in the mill, and.

SJ: Where you worked, yeah. I know one of the VPs, you know he was a VP of technical, coater technical, and I mean there was just some people that would call and he’d say “Jeez, I don’t have an answer for them, I don’t want to talk to them,” and I could pick up his phone from my desk. And he’d be out in the hall and I’d just pick up his phone and “No he’s not in his office right now, can I take a message?” And the customer service manager, he was looking for him one day and I said “No, he’s not in his office.” And he was standing right in front of me [both laugh]. And then they were down in my office one day and Jeff got another phone call and I picked up his phone and I said “No he’s not in his office right now,” and the customer service manager, he looked at me and he said “Was he in the office the other day when I called and asked?” I said “No, he wasn’t in his office.” “Was he in your office?” I said, “Well yes he was.” [Both laugh] ”So you lied to me.” I said “No, you asked me if he was in his office, and he wasn’t. [Both laugh]

AS: Oh my gosh!

SJ: It’s all in how you ask the question. I answered it honestly.

AS: That’s right! He wasn’t specific enough! [laughs] [End Track 7, Begin Track 8]

SJ: Yeah.

AS: Well, we went through things very quickly but I think we touched upon just about everything that I wanted to ask, so.

SJ: Well good.

AS: If you think of anything else, feel free to call me.

SJ: Okay.

AS: And, I guess my last question would be, because we’re especially focusing on women in the pulp and paper industry right now, do you know of any other women, either at Eastern or at any of the other mills in the area, that might be interested?

SJ: Well, I’m not sure who you’ve interviewed. Cyndi Wass obviously. Lois – Anderson? Andrews.

AS: Andrews, yeah.

SJ: Let me think, ah let’s see, Donna Holland, she was the HR person. Nicky DeCesere, she was in HR.

AS: Is that Vince DeCesere’s daughter?

SJ: Yeah.

AS: Okay. Is she still in the area, do you know?

SJ: Yeah, she’s working across from me at Lemforter.

AS: Oh, okay.

SJ: And let’s see, Wendy Durrah, she was there for awhile. There wasn’t a lot of women. The accounting office, let’s see, there was Charlene Rushmore, and Judy – what was her last name? Judy – I can’t, it’s, it will come to me. And Terri, she was the accounting manager, Terri – I want to say Higgins but I don’t think that was it. I’m so bad with names!

AS: Oh, that’s all right.

SJ: Then out in the mill, out in customer service they were, what do I want to say, the crankiest? [Both laugh]

AS: Okay.

SJ: I’m not sure if you’d want to interview them or not.

AS: Really. That’s interesting. I don’t know if I have talked to anybody from customer service.

SJ: And there was Beth Martin, Terry Chiarrocci.

AS: Any idea how to spell that last name?

SJ: C-H-I-A-R-R-O-C-C-I.

AS: Okay.

SJ: [laughs] That’s a guess.

AS: Okay.

SJ: Cindy Johnson.

AS: She was in customer service?

SJ: Yeah, she was in coater customer service.

AS: Do you have any idea how many women roughly worked in the mill compared to the total number of employees, if you had to guess?

SJ: There might have been 25, 30 women maybe?

AS: Wow, out of a workforce of more than 300.

SJ: Yeah. And most of the women worked in the office. I mean, there weren’t many that worked out in the mill.

AS: So it was a very male-oriented field.

SJ: Yeah. And the women that were there were rough.

AS: Really?

SJ: [laughs] Yeah.

AS: Do you count yourself as one of those rough women?

SJ: No! [Both laugh] No, I’m pretty mellow.

AS: But that was probably a symptom of working in such a male-dominated field.

SJ: Yeah. Yeah.

AS: Well thank you very much Shirley, I –

SJ: Oh, you’re welcome.

AS: - appreciated talking with you and –

SJ: Well, I enjoyed it [laughs].

AS: Thanks.

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